catja catja catja starts with c
|Response to Recent Events
||[May. 29th, 2007|11:36 pm]
ETA: THE LIST IS UP!|
Pornish Pixies has been suspended for incest fic. Because, apparently, writing fiction about something=PROMOTING ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES. You'll also notice that the communities/people targeted are writing about fictional SEX rather than fictional VIOLENCE. Because targeting murder mystery/thriller/serial killer writers would be silly, but targeting people who write about equally fictional illegal sex acts makes perfect sense.
Fandom is a literary community, and fandom has been targeted. Therefore, it is extremely important, I think, to draw analogies from the world of institutionalized literature, and show that fictional depictions of incest/underage/what have you is not something that can be safely dismissed, constructed as limited to a few fringe lunatics in the bizarro-world that is fandom. Incest, and illegal sex (whatever that means in a given context) in general, is a theme that has fascinated writers since time immemorial, and there has been a LOT of fiction -- serious, silly, pornographic, etc. -- that has dealt with these themes.
What I want, here, is for y'all to list every single piece of published fiction you can think of with ILLEGAL SEXUAL ACTIVITIES, like incest or underage sex. Great Books of the Canon are of course good choices, but don't neglect the genre fiction, either. Also, list the illegal sex acts contained therein. It might sound kind of esoteric, but it will, I think, be a handy starting place, to be able to point to the sheer NUMBER of published texts -- published without fuss, freely available in bookstores and libraries (or on the 'Net, for old stuff), and in some cases, taught in schools -- that contain the very same fictional sex acts that are being targeted by the would-be fiction police. I want a HUGE-ASS list of stuff for everyone to be able to reference. While literary precedent isn't everything, having access to a metric assload of fiction that contains exactly the same "crimes" will help shore up arguments about the ridiculousness of this crackdown.
I'll start, with a few off the top of my head:
The complete works of V.C. Andrews: incest, underage sex
Lolita, Vladimir Nabokov: underage sex
It, Stephen King: underage -- barely pubescent! -- group sex
The Magic Toyshop, Angela Carter: incest
"The Company of Wolves," Angela Carter: underage sex, quasi-bestiality
"The Heart of the Forest," Angela Carter: incest, underage sex
Fool for Love, Sam Shepard: incest
Romeo and Juliet, Shakespeare: underage sex (Juliet is 13/14)
Laon and Cythna, Percy Shelley: incest
The Cenci, Percy Shelley: incest
My Secret Life, Anonymous (an extremely important work of Victorian pornography): you name it, it's in there
Mathilde, Mary Shelley: incest
The Oedipus plays, Sophocles: incest
Have at it, and feel free to pimp.
Manfred, Lord Byron; incest
The assorted works of Poppy Z. Brite, also. Incest, underage sex, mostly. Uh. And necro. And there was bestiality in one of them.
PIMP'd. I am sure I will think of something later.
One Lolita discussion community has actually already been suspended.
I'm sick over this, honestly.
Faulkner's Absalom Absalom.
i know there are tons and now i can barely remember one.... *sigh*
I take it you're thinking of Lot and his daughters, am I right?
The Amber Spyglass, Philip Pullman: underage sex
The Kiss, Kathryn Harrison: incest
Bee and Jacky, Carolyn Coman: incest
When Jeff Comes Home, Catherine Atkins: pedophilia
Pretty much anything Francesca Lia Block wrote
Are we counting rape? It seems like communities with rapefic were also targeted (though I could be wrong), in which case, hoo boy.
Yeah, I was going to mention FLB. Incest, underage sex, and whatnot, ahoy!
Ian McEwan - The Comfort of Strangers: Roofies and Rape
Ian McEwan - Atonement: Rape of an underage girl
Most of Ovid's Metamorphises: Rape
Technically I've always considered the Immaculate Conception rape because I don't think Mary was too excited to get pregnant right then.
Ian McEwan! The Cement Garden: incest
Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay, contains Incest.
Mist of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley, Incest.
(you'd have tons of examples in anime too)
Anime's probably not your best source of examples... there are groups out there trying to get blanket bans on anime because some of it has objectionable material and they can't be bothered to make the distinction. I don't think that's right either, but the last thing we want to do is have those groups supporting each other.
2007-05-30 05:06 am (UTC)
The Psalms of Herod by Esther Friesner -- underage sex and rape
The Secret History by Donna Tart -- incest
Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey -- underage sex
His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman -- underage sex
and pretty much any version of the King Arthur story is going to show up with underage sex and/or incest somewhere.
I read His Dark Materials a loooong time ago. When is there underage sex? I don't remember it at all.
2007-05-30 05:09 am (UTC)
Cyteen by CJ Cherryh -- underage sex and group sex, rape, and acts which are arguably incestuous.
let's not forget that 'kushiel's dart' gets points for sadism and noncon and sodomy.
Oh, I forgot!
Belinda, by 'Anne Rampling' aka Anne Rice, which deals with underage sex.
Really, is there anything by Anne Rice that doesn't deal with underage or just overall creepy sex?
And via this on (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest_in_fiction
I knew there was tons: Nabokov's Ada; Marquez's One Hundred Years; Roy's The God of Small Things;...
and since incest is so constructed (i.e., is cousins incest or not), let's throw Hamlet in as well!!!
Stephen King's It has a whole scene where seven 14 yr old boys take turns in a sewer screwing their female friend.
Reading right now, The Bone Parade by Mark Nykanen, where out serial killer has kidnapped a whole family in order to cast them into bronze during their dying moments of sheer terror. Has very brutal sex with the 16 yr old daughter.
Yes, and it was arguably the dumbest part of that otherwise spectacular book. I really don't know what King was thinking there.
Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit by Winterson--adult having sex with a minor, lesbianic relatinoship
The Color Purple, Alice Walker. Rape and incest.
The Song of Ice and Fire series, George R.R. Martin. Rape and incest--incidentally, the incest is central to the main storyline.
Jodi Picoult, Songs of the Humpback Whale - incest, plus some more strongly implied incest, underage sex
Jodi Picoult, Vanishing Acts - underage sexually-based child abuse (this may be a stretch as there's no confirmed sex and it's her stepfather, not her natural parent, doing the abusing)
Jodi Picoult, Salem Falls - incest and underage sex
Meg O'Brien, Crashing Down - incest
Rita Mae Brown, Rubyfruit Jungle - underage sex
Jackie French Koller, A Place to Call Home - implied incest
Beatrice Sparks, Treacherous Love: The Diary of an Anonymous Teenager; Annie's Baby: The Diary of Anonymous, a Pregnant Teenager; It Happened to Nancy: By an Anonymous Teenager - underage sex (these are those "real people's diaries!" that were completely made up by Beatrice Sparks, so they're classified as fiction but often shelved as nonfiction)
How about sex where both parties are under the age of consent? I know it varies from state to state, both the setting of the book and the reader's, but if you include that, half the YA books out there would make the list. And, as others have said, let's not even get started on rape.
Oh, right, and I forgot about Jodi Picoult's Perfect Match - more underage sex
2007-05-30 05:26 am (UTC)
Aestival Tide by Elizabeth Hand -- incest
Fall On Your Knees by Ann-Marie MacDonald; incest, underage sex, pedophilia, rape
Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides; incest, underage sex
Both are bestsellers.
While we're at it, my own book: The Tale of the Miller's Daughter by JoSelle Vanderhooft: Underage sex is mentioned in passing (and my main character is 16 when forcibly married) as well as rape and torture.
In fact, pretty much anything I write is verboten.
But enough about me. Why not add Jane Eyre to the list as well? Jane considers marrying her first cousin St. John near the end of it (because, you know, people in the 1830s in England NEVER EVER DID THAT!)
Jane considers marrying her first cousin St. John
Not illegal or considered incest in Britain, then or now, so stories of this type are best left out of any list, being something of a red herring. (As could be said of tales where age of consent doesn't apply according to the mores of the time -- Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet for example.)
The A Song of Ice and Fire
series by George R R Martin (who is on LJ, btw, as grrm
) has: rape, underage sexual activity, child abuse, and incest.
The Sound and the Fury by William Faulkner
Leslie Marmon Silko, Ceremony
, underage sex
Maya Angelou, I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings
Paula Vogle, How I Learned To Drive
(underage sex / consensual incest)halseanderson
(rape) and Catalyst
(familial sexual abuse)
Toni Morrison, Beloved
(bestiality, probably more)
Uh...Leda and the Swan?
ALL GREEK MYTHOLOGY EVER? also, basically, like, all anime ever.
Does tv and film media count? Because the list would never end.
my brain is stuck, i'll be back with more.
Tony Morrison's works Are filled with incest and rape/sexual abuse.
Hee hee, we had to explain to the valevictorian what incest was when we read Morrison's Song of Soloman in 11th grade English class. . .
I know why the Caged Bird Sings, by Maya Angelou, for insest.
Hmm. Have you got The Satyricon (Petronius)? I believe it has lots of underage sex and whatnot. Oh, and The Lovely Bones, for underage sex/rape and murder. Daughter of the Forest by Juliet Marillier (I'm fairly sure that's how it's spelled) has underage sex/rape as well. Oh oh, and Anne Bishop's The Black Jewels Trilogy has this huge plot involving a whorehouse full of prepubescent girls.
That's all I can think of at the moment. I'll check my bookshelves and get back to you ^^*
Briarwood is the pretty poison... :: shudder ::
Here via bookshop
. Pimped and wracking my brain.
Regina's Song, by David and Leigh Eddings, had definite incestual themes, though they were never elaborated upon; the twins were so close as to lose their singular identities.
Melvin Burgess' Bloodtide (ironically, found in the Children's section) had incest, vague bestiality through mythology 0 the works.
The Heritage of Cain: Venus in Furs was only deviant for its time, and everything else I've read has already been named.